I don't understand

[benlehman]

The amount of flack I've gotten for wanting to teach about Forge theory without arguing about it. Do people not understand the difference between a polemic and a teaching text? Or do the simply not recognize the latter as having any value?

Feh.

Comments

[unrequitedthai.livejournal.com]

I suspect two things:
1) people that believe the theory isn't worthy of being taught
2) people who are more interested in arguing than teaching

[arianhwyvar.livejournal.com]

Also, people are bad at listening. Many of us have trained ourselves or been trained to automatically jump on the first little bit we disagree with or have counter-evidence for, in anything we hear.

I wonder if some of it may also be that people (whether by nature or training, I am not certain) treat teaching differently when it is coming from someone they perceive as being 'in authority' versus someone who they do not. I suspect there is too much of a tendancy to listen too uncritically to those we are told are authorities/in authority ('I must be wrong'), and too critically to those we think are equal or unproven compared to ourselves ('They must be wrong, or they don't know how things are different for me').

Do you have a teaching text on Forge theory? I feel the problems I've had with Forge theory come in large part from a dearth of people presenting it as something that can be taught (with admittedly occasional exceptions), and instead as something that must be pre-understood, or accepted axiomically, and that people who do not innately understand or accept the theory are fools or blind.

[nikotesla.livejournal.com]

It's also in the nature of the medium. There's no way to let you, or anyone else, know that they've read it other than piping up.

Furthermore, in any college class I ever took, it was assumed that, after reading something, it would be picked apart, not assumed as truth. This is doubly so when someone isn't otherwise established as an authority, as the above poster notes.

[bob-goat.livejournal.com]

You've gotten flak for that? You're kidding me?

[xiombarg.livejournal.com]

You're getting flack? From whom? I have to admit that that makes no sense to me, either (that you'd be getting flack for that).

[apollinax.livejournal.com]

You've been getting flak from the Forge community about this? Ignore it.

Eh. You know my opinion: like most academic communities, the Forge has a couple of really insightful people and a lot of chump lackeys who can only repeat dogma. Question is, from which set do the complaints come from?

The only reason academica has lots of arguing is because there's something at stake. Specifically, the limited set of tenured positions at schools and grant dollars, which academics jockey for in a big pissing match. In fields where there's less resource pressure (e.g., engineering, CS), you see much less arguing and much more discussion.

But anyways. Teach away, man.

[evilmagnus]

Also, folks may think that any teaching text is secretly:

1. The Doctrine of benlehman
2. Just an ego-trip that they wish they'd thought of first.

But yeah, I'm with Kil on this. Ignore the whiners. You're not doing it for them, and there will always be whiners.

[rob-donoghue.livejournal.com]

I admit, I'd be fascinated to hear some elaboration of this, or at least some context to go poke at. There are lots of interesting potential responses to the question, but it's hard to say which are relevant. Cynically, I'd note that there is such an expectation of polemics that it's hard to convince people to expect anything else. :)

[foreign-devilry.livejournal.com]

Lame, dude. Polemics are for the Turkus. People need to learn how to listen.

And, as a side comment, people who think the Forge presents theory as dogma have obviously never participated in discussions there. Sure, there are some stupid gorillas who like to throw their weight around, but also a lot of people who are generally interested in exploring stuff. And that means questioning previous assumptions, especially Ron's (since they're the basis of so many conversations there).

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

On the internet, "everyone's opinion is fact".

Just turn off comments, email the people you WANT TO hear from and keep pushing. I'm impressed at how clearly and succinctly you're putting it all down.

[greyorm.livejournal.com]

Er, who and where and about what specifically? Some context would be helpful in answering your question, otherwise the only real answer anyone can give without basically sitting and wanking in the open is: "Well, it could be for a variety of reasons."

I mean, we've already got people going, "Oh yeah, that's happening because people on the Forge are a bunch of chumps..." et al. and I have no way of knowing if that's even a valid criticism, or just an example of an assumption being used to indulge in some Forge-hatin' lookit' me sneerin' down my nose at group X and thus proving how cool I am crap.