posted by [identity profile] redcrosse.livejournal.com at 11:16am on 13/03/2005
>Vincent said to me: "The point of Dogs is that you go in thinking you are heroes, and you realize that you're playing the bad guys."

See, I find this totally bizarre. I mean, true, from many peoples' moral perspectives, the characters in Dogs are questionable. But "bad guys"? What? So are the demons the good guys? I mean, sure, maybe Dogs is a world and game in which no one is right to show the fundamental flaws of the worldview in which any of the represented sides occur, but within the world as stated, the Dogs are kinda not the bad guys. Or if they are, you've got a seriously weird game going, and the group may want to consider playing a different one. The choices they make are at times difficult if the GM's doing his/her job, but I don't see how that makes the Dogs "Bad Guys." I think I just lost a fair amount of respect for the game on account of that creator-analysis.

I also don't know what this post has to do with Chuang-Tzu, but that's cool, I'm sure he doesn't mind being quoted regardless of relevance.
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 01:26pm on 13/03/2005
Okay, so I'm of two minds here.
1) I took a quote out of context for the purposes of an essay, and I should explain the context.
2) I am in no way able to explain something that someone else had said.

Clearly, in terms of the in-game-world, Dogs are Good, demons are Evil. This isn't what Vincent is talking about.

The quote which preceeds this is about a particular game at Dreamation 2005, which took a particularly nasty turn. One of the players, afterwards, said to Vincent "I'm not sure I want to imagine a world where God is okay with what we did."

Point being: Dogs has all this stuff about divine judgement, but you (the players, here) aren't divine. You're human. There is going to be a situation in which you can't figure out the best solution, or where there isn't a solution, or where you screw up and gun down the only man who'd be a good Steward in town. (Note -- repeated play may be necessary for this to happen, but it will happen.) Or you screw up and kill a big chunk of the male population. Or you let the demons win.

That's, at least, what it seemed to me in the conversation we were having. I can ask V to come in here and clarify.

yrs--
--Ben

P.S. Zhuangzi should be quoted in any context. My point was that playing characters means that they tend to move towards some more human middle, rather than the extremes that a lot of people create them at. Hence, the playing is evening things out. Destruction of categories, man.
 
posted by [identity profile] yeloson.livejournal.com at 05:00pm on 13/03/2005
Yeah, one of the big things that I dig about DitV is that it emphasises the problems of justice built on ideals without specific guidelines... "Well, here's how we live, and here's how its supposed to work... and the few times it ain't working, you step in and fix it" But it's never working, and "fix it" is insufficient advice.

So you try the best you can. And sometimes its good, and sometimes its really, really bad. And then you leave- and you've either cleared out a lot of drama or left a lot of people fucked up in your wake. Its basically doing community surgery without any guidelines or procedures...

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