Yes. This : comments.
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![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
The "men's movement" is completely bug-fuck sitting in tree drumming shit with no political aspirations whatsoever. Fuck no.
"Men's rights activism" is primarily conservative and anti-feminist rather than pro-man. Meh.
So basically, if you want a group that's trying to undo social roles in a serious and political fashion, you've got, well, a choice of one.
Or you could be a leftist guy trying to pick up chicks by demonstrating your sensitivity. (*cough* Estrogen Paladin†)
yrs--
--Ben
† Bonus question: what, if anything, would make an Estrogen Dark Paladin?
Re: Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
(no subject)
Calls his hugs "by Curse"?
I don't think I want to see the Estrogen hidden lists.
Re: Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
Why do we need movements for men? I can understand why the black (and other ethnic groups) needed the Civil Rights movement, and I can understand why Women needed the Women's Movement (I tend to think of Feminism as the extreme fascist form of that...and I know that my rhetoric is not normative in that regard), BUT I don't think that men need a movement or a group to be able to express their feelings on the Rights of Women.
It's their thing, let them do it. If a woman asks me how I feel, I'll raise my fist and say, "You go sister," while smiling as I get back to whatever I'm doing. If a woman asks me to help her in this movement, sure I'll help, but trying to promote women's rights as a man smacks to me of the same arrogance as trying to export Democracy into countries that haven't asked for it.
Re: Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
On the other hand, I think it's quite possible and legitimate to find the societally expected male gender roles annoying: to say that you don't have to give a damn about sports, that there's nothing wrong with caring about how you look, that you don't have to react all pissy-and-defensive any time a woman knows more about sex or trucks or blowing shit up than you do.
As Ben says, there's not a lot of good ways to express that, though. You've got wanky navel-gazing quasi-Pagans (who don't use deodorant) or you've got lead-eating Fundies who resemble that one Star Trek episode with the "devolution" rays. Or you've got women's rights, which may be the sane-est alternative.
And frankly, the fact that I've just described feminism as the sane alternative kind of scares me, because I've spent the last ten years going "I'm a feminist...but NOT CRAZY, dude, I SWEAR." (See also: die in a fire, Andrea Dworkin.)
Re: Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
See I like guns, I'm not a fundie, and only like sports that I'm playing in - I could give a damn about other teams or leagues. Although I can understand the draw of soccer. Women can do whatever they want and like. I know that there is too much information for me to ever absorb so there will be plenty of women out there that know more than I do about just about everything.
Re: Speaking as a guy who *doesn't* call himself a feminist
In "fairness" to Estrogen Paladin, I don't think he was ever just trying to pick up chicks; I think he was actually ashamed that he had a cock. But sincere obnoxious condescension is still obnoxious condescension, so.
Bonus question: I don't know, but I kinda want to play one somewhere.