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posted by [identity profile] matt-rah.livejournal.com at 10:31pm on 30/06/2008
Ben, can you give an example (preferably one I'm familiar with) of rules that are clever, and work well, but yet still suck? I'm having trouble figuring out what that even means. Not that I don't believe you, but I just don't quite get it.

Or the inverse: rules that don't suck, but fail to be clever or work well.

I can't come up with an example of either off the top of my head.

BTW, I used Polaris to introduce my girlfriend to roleplaying this weekend, along with two of her friends (only one of whom had any roleplaying experience)... and it went great! So thanks once again for Polaris!

Matt
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 03:55am on 01/07/2008
Rules that don't suck, but fail to be clever: FATE. FATE is deeply non-clever. Just admirably good.

Rules that are clever, and work well, but suck: the first year's worth of revisions of Polaris, to start with. Look at any game with "ashcan" plastered on it and you'll see a collection of clever, well working rules that suck.

When at this stage, many game designers think "oh, I just need to tweak things a bit."

That's when you need to flush everything.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] matt-rah.livejournal.com at 04:00am on 01/07/2008
Oh dear. That's kind of where I am with Showdown. Must be time to delete the file and start over! ;-)

That said, my one experience playtesting an ashcan, which was Giants at GenCon last summer, does not conform with your definition. Giants, in fact, had a lot of cool rules that didn't quite work. :-)

Matt
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 04:07am on 01/07/2008
Well, flush your rules, at least.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] matt-rah.livejournal.com at 04:08am on 01/07/2008
Honestly, I've played it all of twice. I definitely need to playtest it a few more times at least, and get really super confident that the rules are 90% good, before I get rid of them all. :-)

Matt
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