posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 08:22pm on 11/06/2005
Cool, well, what's the lesson for us overeducated game designers, then?
 
posted by [identity profile] djtiresias.livejournal.com at 11:09pm on 12/06/2005
1: Keep in mind the symbols and associations with which the audience will be familiar. Consider Exalted, for example. They though carefully about the race, age, and gender of the signature characters; and the effect that would have on the audience. The "Cleric" type is black, because they thought a black character would seem less preachy and more crusading. The setting does not have an analogue to Black American Churches. But the audience knows the stereotypes surrounding Black American Churches. So race becomes an effective way to communicate.

2: You do have to keep the audience in mind. One of my favorite games is Unknown Armies, but it fails somewhat in this department. Its a wonderful game - if you're a veteran gamer with a good education and a healthy dose of cynicism. If you're not, you're likely to miss a lot of the irony and think the whole thing is just kind of dumb.

BTW, a while back you asked me why I disliked Indie games. Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. I don't like to talk about it, because A) I think the concept of indie games is cool and want to be supportive and B)Its a little hard to know why I don't usually like 'em. I just see the final product, not the process at work.

One problem is that they tend to be very short. $20 for 100 A5 pages is a tough sell. Often the ideas as well as the text is underdevoloped. Where are the character hooks, the plot ideas, the setting?
Indie games rarely support the style of play I perfer. I like more crunch. Not D&D level crunch but more than Kill Puppies.
Finally, the intended PCs and intended story have to be engaging. I don't but Starwars games because I don't like Starwars. I'm not going to play Cat cuz it just doesn't seem cool to me. I know plenty of people who would love Cat, but hey, its just nor for me.

So, yeah, those are my thoughts, take 'em for what their worth.
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 11:33pm on 12/06/2005
I guess I just can't bring myself to care about my "audience" at all, though I don't have any contempt for those that do. It just strikes me as a strictly professional concern, and I am pretty much committed to the path of being an amateur game designer. My audience is me. Anyone else who happens to like the games I write is welcome to buy them and play them and enjoy them, but I'm not beholden to them in any way.

(Note: By "amateur" I don't mean "makes no money," I just mean "primarily done for one's own amusement, rather than as a profession.")

As to your complaints about indie games: Well, there they are. The last two seem like perfectly okay things to base your buying decisions off of.

I am a little sad that they are not useful to me as a marketer, but that's my own account.

yrs--
--Ben
 
posted by [identity profile] djtiresias.livejournal.com at 09:42am on 13/06/2005
heh, yeah, well if your you're own audience, you're in good shape.
 
posted by [identity profile] judd-sonofbert.livejournal.com at 08:03am on 14/06/2005
If you are into something more crunchy, Burning Wheel (http://www.burningwheel.org/) might be your thang. Its got tons of bang for your buck.

You wrote: "Where are the character hooks, the plot ideas, the setting?"

The best settings are the ones I make with my players. Plot ideas and hooks, these are things I've never had trouble with coming up with on my own. I don't want to pay for 'em.
 
posted by [identity profile] djtiresias.livejournal.com at 01:38am on 16/06/2005
Yeah, I keep meaning to pick up Burning Wheel. I do like setting though. A good one can be fun to read, like a novel.

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