Gamer Question

[benlehman]

People who like L5R: Why?

Why do you like a top-heavy, orientalist, highly westernized fantasy of Japan that is simultaneously less gameable and less interesting than the "real thing" (either a historical period or something based on Japanese myth.) Real Samurai had complicated lives of politics, betrayal, war, and power. Y'know, human issues. L5R Samurai seem to worry mostly about "taint" and "honor" and kill themselves all the damned time.

Not to mention that China and Korea are reduced to "the shadowlands" that are EVIL and full of "taint."

And please don't say it is the system. 'cause that is a whole nother rant.

(Clarification: I have no trouble believing that a lot of people like L5R. Just that twice today I have seen folks who I think of as rational, sane people, very hip to racial, cultural, and historical issues, praise the game. I'm really curious -- why? Am I missing something?)

Comments

[unrequitedthai.livejournal.com]

When you say, "less gameable", you are expressing your own tastes!

L5R is uncomplicated; everyone has the same big issue and the story revolves around how that one issue affects every person differently. I imagine that an archetypal L5R story involves a tight-knit group of samurai who are pulled apart by their differing interpretations of honour.

Plus, everyone has a pretty, built-in colour scheme!

[yeloson.livejournal.com]

Aimed straight at me, huh? :) I consider it fun mind-trash. Though, I pretty much run it as human issues + high fantasy anyway.

But here's the breakdown:
- Simple good vs. evil concept (with some shades of grey)= mindless fun
- High fantasy elements (undead, magic, gods, etc.) = adolescent kick
- Setting where ALL the characters are asian, competant, and in positions of power, and there are characters who DON'T know martial arts(though there is a heavy focus)
- I can play an asian character and not have the assumption "Oh, it's just because you're asian"

But do I recognize many of the issues you speak of? Yes. And also, I really can't see myself playing with the folks who play the 2D samurai("Daily seppuku").

[judd-sonofbert.livejournal.com]

My explanation is that Rokugan has as much to do with historical Japan as Middle-Earth has to do with medieval Norway.

Nothing.

Does something itch in my head about white people futzing around with Japanese lore and mixing and matching everything gaijin see as Asian?

Yeah, on some level it bugs me.

But on another level I want every damned myth, every culture, every religion, every text to be our playground.

Am I making sense, here, Ben?

[lordsmerf.livejournal.com]

Also: the CCG is a rather elegantly designed one.

It's also a fascinating look at the way the West does see Japan...

Thomas

[judd-sonofbert.livejournal.com]

In other related news, I have this Samurai RPG rattling around in my head based around the four seasons.

I think there would be one conflict per PC per season or something.

I just remember talking to one of my students about how each season has a part of nature to observe. Star-gazing in the winter, leaves in autumn, cherry-blossoms in spring...shit, I'm blanking on summer.

Anyway, it'd be neat to have a game built around those festivals.

Thassall.

[nikotesla.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I keep making up reasons that someone might like it (I don't know the mechanics, just the setting), but they're not good.

See, Tolkein made up Middle Earth because it bothered him that all the stories about England that that people had were (Mon Dieu!) French. So he made up stuff that used actual English lore and ran with it on his own.

L5R is closer to Le Morte D'Artur than Tolkein's works. It's another society making stuff up about an alien one, and getting no closer to understanding it.

It's like having an Alan Quatermain RPG, you know? Where everything takes place in a magical foreign land where the people are a different color and they're savage!

My issues with it (mechanics aside) are yours, Ben. Even assuming that you're not playing Mountain Witch because it does all that hippy stuff where you get to play a protagonist, there's still Sengoku (http://www.goldrushgames.com/sengoku.html) and GURPS Japan (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Japan/) which treat their subject matter with so much more respect. And I don't say that because of some sort of kneejerk multiculturalist attitude, either. I say that because the stuff is fucking interesting. The history's good, the fiction's good, the myth is good.

I'd really dig a game that took place in India with Upanishad goodness, but I'd be really disappointed if it had the level of research and respect shown in L5R.

You know what it's like? It's like the Hercules TV show.

[bar-sinister.livejournal.com]

Hey, Ben, I actually do like this game (and yeloson, we have an Asian player in our group, Malaysian Chinese, actually). Why? Drift, my friend, drift. I mix in some elements of real Japanese culture, but also I enjoy exploring the purely fantastic culture that is described in the books. I also pretty much ignore there metaplot entirely. My game focuses on the inter-clan politics and the conflicting loyalties to clan, friends, and empire. Those opposing forces are what drives the game, and are implied but not described in the text of the game. That, and some real fun powertripping as the players get to higher and higher ranks.

[djtiresias.livejournal.com]

If an American has a vision of Japan that he's imagined and fallen in love with....well, he's in love with the vision. He doesn't know anything about the real thing. I think there's a lesson in there for us overeducated game designers.