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posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 08:48pm on 05/03/2005
People might play to experience immersion. (personally, I don't think that this is anyone's actual "why," but that's neither here nor there. Let's assume it is.)

If their goal is immersion, they will use a bunch of immersive techniques (of which there are many) to achieve that goal. The techniques are not the goal, still.

Other goals may also employ the same immersive techniques.

Do we agree about all that?
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] lordsmerf.livejournal.com at 08:58pm on 05/03/2005
Yes. Definitely. No question about it at all.

I've personally used immersive techniques in the pursuit of theme, so I'm totally with you on this one.

This raises an interesting question... Can you have a set of techniques as an Agenda? You evidently think not, I'd be curious to know why. Feel free to take it to email or IRC or something if you wish...

Thomas
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 09:05pm on 05/03/2005
An agendum is a thing that you are trying to do. It is a goal.

A technique is a process to get there.

They simply are different things.

It's like asking: Can all these nouns be a verb? No. They simply are different things.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] lordsmerf.livejournal.com at 09:12pm on 05/03/2005
Okay... so would you say that no one ever has "I want to be immeresed in the character and the world of the game." As an final goal? I'm not sure that anyone does, but if they don't, what do all the people who say that that's what they're doing really want?

Thomas
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 09:22pm on 05/03/2005
That's not what I'm saying at all, no.

The definition of goal (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=goal)
the definition of process (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=process)

Creative Agenda are *goals*
Techniques are *processes*

These simply occupy different places in the brain. They are different things. If your goal is to be immersed, that is different from the process of immersing yourself, still.

In NO CASE are the two identical.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] lordsmerf.livejournal.com at 09:26pm on 05/03/2005
Ah, okay. You're not saying that there isn't a Creative Agenda to be associated with Immersion (and the like), you're saying that people are conflating the Creative Agenda with the techniques that are commonly used to achieve it.

If that's what you're saying, then I apologize for all this. We're on the same page, I agree with you totally. Sorry 'bout all that.

Thomas
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