(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 05:36pm on 10/02/2010
(italics are quotes)

You: Thankfully, common sense came into play there and it stopped after people figured out I wouldn't pull something like that.

Me: To be fair, that they are discriminated against is almost certainly true on some level.

I admit my grammar sucks, but this is what you're describing.

I'm talking about institutional murder. Do you have any doubt that, if you were killed, it would have been investigated with standard police procedure?

I don't.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-thiefofhearts-/ at 06:28pm on 10/02/2010
In regards to the rumors of my attack, it thankfully ended with my friends. The rumor grapevine still continued but I honestly didn't care about that.

Yeah, in regards to the murder question. I'm pretty sure that I would, but not because of my race or political views. I'd more attribute it to that I have family who was (and some are still in) law enforcement. While it is a different problem of preference altogether, I'm sure that fact didn't hurt in catching the two who did nearly kill me (no exaggeration there, the hospital's chief surgeon worked on me personally, said I was the second worse case he'd seen still alive after the incident.) although the leader of the group got 6 months in the slammer when it came to sentencing after skipping his first court hearing and then being hauled back when he got caught doing carjackings in Santa Cruz.

But how do the actions and crimes of the past somehow rationalize one unrelated person's views as invalid or less than another at this very moment?

Shouldn't any mistreatment done to ANYONE be criticized?
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 06:39pm on 10/02/2010
Uh, what?

You're arguing about something I'm not saying.

Here's a basic reading comprehension exercise: restate what I'm saying in your own words, without making fun of it or inserting your own arguments.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-thiefofhearts-/ at 06:57pm on 10/02/2010
You're stating that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that certain people who are complaining of being targeted for mistreatment shouldn't have any right to that complaint because their group hasn't had extreme and open atrocities committed upon them.

Am I on the money here?
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 07:01pm on 10/02/2010
Nope.

yrs--
--Ben
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/-thiefofhearts-/ at 07:06pm on 10/02/2010
Could you explain what I'm missing here then?
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 01:04pm on 11/02/2010
Sometimes I consider it beneficial to shut up and listen to other people (I know, shocking). Often the people who I am likely to shut up and listen to our also people who have endured categorical group oppression.

Sometimes there are groups of people that try to convince me (and others of similar views) that they should get such a privileged voice, based on whatever criteria. Since any group suffers some form of group-based discrimination from *someone*, you can't just say "anyone who suffers discrimination" or you end up with ridiculous oppression olympics bullshit. I have previously gone with my gut instincts about this.

Now I realized that institutional murder makes a darned good criterion for figuring out whether I should be making sure that someone's voice gets heard (by me, or by others.) For various reasons, which I can go into but I doubt you care about.

Interestingly, this has made me think twice about my previously held gut instincts. Example, conservatives, who in the form of Loyalists really were subject to institutional murder during the Revolution.
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My attempt

posted by [identity profile] russiandude.livejournal.com at 07:50pm on 10/02/2010
I think the question you are posing is such:

Given that there is a certain unavoidable level of discrimination present in the world at large and most societies, at which point, should I [ben] begin to grant others special treatment because of the discrimination they experience?
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Re: My attempt

posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 01:06pm on 11/02/2010
Right, where "special treatment" in this case is pretty much just "conversational space and the benefit of the doubt in listening."
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] karjack.livejournal.com at 08:46pm on 10/02/2010
It sounds to me like what you're saying is that those whose voices have historically been stifled the most are the ones you're going to try harder to listen to. After all, the guy with the megaphone isn't the guy you've got to strain to hear.
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