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Game design has a terrible muck to it. There's a point where it's just not fun anymore, where looking at your game rules serves only to give you a sense of existential dread, where the playtesters are saying "yeah it's pretty fun" and then sorta sighing, where you've got a list of problems to fix as long as your arm and none of them are the unarticulatable problem that needs fixing.

(this is the first patch of muck. There are many others.)

In order that you will produce a finished game, there needs to be something that gets you through this muck. If that's not there, the game won't be finished. So if the primary reason that you're approaching game design is because "it's fun" then there won't be anything left to get you through the muck, and you'll leave game after game marooned on the shores, unfinished and unloved. This is cool, you should be yourself and accept who you are, just recognize that all us other game designers laugh a little bit when you say "I'm a game designer!" because, well, no, you're not doing the hard part.

This motivation can come from a variety of sources. The two most common that I've seen are a burning, intense, somewhat abnormal desire to create something, and a burning, intense, totally normal desire to make some money. Alexis and Lukas gave me some other possibilities in conversation: A burning desire to have the finished product (this is different from the desire to create something in that, if someone else would just write the game for you, that'd be fine with you: you just want to have it), and a social responsibility to other people requiring that you finish it (you promised.)

It doesn't actually matter for the end product what you use to get you through your muck. There's not, like, a good and legitimate way to do it. But the key thing is that this happens to everybody who is a game designer (or probably any type of creative person.) Creativity is not all inspiration and frenzied action, like they show in the movies. It has long, slow, boring, frustrating and difficult parts. You need something to get you through, and it can't just be "to have fun designing a game" because many parts of the game design process are explicitly not fun. They suck.

Now, that all said, this doesn't actually help you get through the muck. Which maybe I should post about, but it's so individual and particular to the game in question that I'm not sure there's much to say about the general case.

It's just an observation that there has to be something there.
There are 15 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 05:27pm on 10/05/2009
Here's a big old aside: One motivation that comes up a lot is "a desire to get social esteem from an internet forum." Now, dealing with the internet and game design issues is really its own separate post, or series of posts. But I'm really skeptical of this. It is possible that there's a finished, for sale game out there that was just written in order to increase one's position in a forum hierarchy. But most of those games seem to either be in eternal "playtest" or just released in an initial form, prettied up, and not actually revised, playtested, or seriously designed.

I'm going to try to keep this confined within a comment, but let's just say briefly that if your goals are purely status advancement, having endless playtest or a half-assed product absolutely make more sense than going through the muck of actually finish something. Thus, it won't get you through the muck. (That said, if anyone wants to come forward and be like "yeah, I designed my game totally for forum cred" they can. I'll listen. I may or may not believe them, but I probably will.)
 
posted by [identity profile] opticalbinary.livejournal.com at 05:49pm on 10/05/2009
I think you're forgetting a motivation: the desire to impress someone. This is different than social esteem, because it's not generally focused, and different from social responsibility, because it doesn't necessarily follow that you've promised someone something-- you just want to surprise them/make them happy/impress them with your design prowess/prove them wrong/get laid.

I think my games are currently muck-stuck because I don't have the burning desire to impress anyone, which generally tends to negatively effect my quality of life anyway.
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 06:06pm on 10/05/2009
I'm certainly forgetting many motivations. Really, the only ones I can think of are the ones that I myself use or have explicitly talked with others about. The creative processes of others are alien to me.

Clearly you should try and impress someone hard to impress. A cat?

yrs--
--Ben
 
posted by [identity profile] graypawn.livejournal.com at 06:25pm on 10/05/2009
Are you going to post about getting through the muck?
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 06:34pm on 10/05/2009
It's so individual and particular to the game in question that I'm not sure there's much to say about the general case.

Happy to talk about your particular case, but probably whatever I say will be something you won't like*.

yrs--
--Ben

* Ways to get through the muck generally involve "kill everything you thought you loved about your game." Or at least seem like it at the time.
 
posted by [identity profile] graypawn.livejournal.com at 01:31am on 11/05/2009
Okay: Specific Situation.

How do you define your Audience? I mean, i've got a lot of different types of Gamers around, and they've all bring different Creative Agendas...

How do you define your Game, the one you want to play and are therefore writing, for it's players, without having only those types of players around to ptest it? And on the flipside, how do you have them around and not have simple yes-men?

In addition to your former post i find myself adopting rules suggested because i react with the "oh...you want that, huh? Well...i guess it can be that, then..."

How this RElates:
The biggest part of muck for me is getting to a point where i want to work through the real, hard, grindy parts (right down to book layout, typoes, and abstract discussions). But without people around that really, really want to see that same thing you're doing it all alone. And that's tiresome. It deviates you. Muck, for me, is not having a creative team to work with.

Did you have a team? How did they function? How much were they there for you/cooperate with you during the Muckphase?
 
posted by [identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com at 02:15am on 11/05/2009
I don't work well with others.

I also, in the words of John Tynes, write for people who "Are my age, with my interests, who are me."

This is actually less flip than it first appears. To be able to write a game for people who are your age, with your interests, who are you involves a lot of self knowledge, either consciously or intuitively.

yrs--
--Ben
 
posted by [identity profile] boxninja.livejournal.com at 05:11pm on 12/05/2009
I agree on that one, Ben.

At the end of the day if I've made something I like then at least one person in the world is happy, even if the rest of the world absolutely isn't. (In which case the rest of the world can bite my shiny metal ass.)
evilmagnus: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] evilmagnus at 07:47pm on 10/05/2009
This reminds me of a quote I once heard and will now mis-remember, along the lines of 'everyone says they wish they were a writer, but what they really mean is they wish they had written.'

I think it was Niven would said that, but it might have been Chaucer or the Space Pope.
 
posted by [identity profile] kitsuchan.livejournal.com at 04:26pm on 11/05/2009
Terry Pratchett has said, "Too many people want to have written." I don't know if that's who you're thinking of, though. Probably a lot of people have said similar things.
evilmagnus: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] evilmagnus at 05:13pm on 11/05/2009
Pratchett is very similar to the Space Pope, so it's probably the same quote. Or Pratchett plagarized him.
 
posted by [identity profile] arianhwyvar.livejournal.com at 07:28pm on 11/05/2009
That's why I will never be a writer. I had discovered by high school that while I produced good results when I wrote, and I was happy with having the finished products, the actual process was an agonizing experience of mental constipation which I know I'll never be willing to put myself through often enough to make money from it. Which is also why I am really thankful to have gotten out of tech writing after a year, and plan never to do it again.
 
posted by [identity profile] joepub.livejournal.com at 06:43pm on 11/05/2009
Oh god,
The muck.

Perfect has spent 2 years in revision. Muck.
I haven't written a word of Ribbon Drive yet, though it now feels done. Muck.
Don't Rest In Shadows is brilliant. No playtesting done yet. Muck.
Cheap doesn't consistently deliver on my goal of ilinx play. Muck.

There's one game that I wrote which is absolutely perfect. It plays exactly like I want it to. I wrote it in a single afternoon, have never had a session that did less than exactly what I wanted it to. That game is Dostoevskyan Murder Ballad.

Out of all of my game projects, Dostoevskyan Murder Ballad is the one which I completely forget about, like, ALL THE TIME.

The muck has a way of justifying itself, once you get through it.
Toil equates worth, if you can carry your enthusiasm out the endpoint with you.
 
posted by [identity profile] yeloson.livejournal.com at 09:07pm on 11/05/2009
I remember folks mentioning that sometimes, when stuck, playing a bunch of fun, functional games helps give you a compass on what the hell you wanted out of the game you were designing and what you didn't want.
 
posted by [identity profile] graypawn.livejournal.com at 05:37am on 12/05/2009
I'm so glad someone said that. I feel ...oddly justified in telling people, that, if they are stuck, to just go find a group of people playing D20 Star Wars. Play that. And in a little while, out of sheer hatred, shock, love or apathy, you'll be back at the drawing board. And happy to be there.

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