benlehman: (Default)
benlehman ([personal profile] benlehman) wrote2008-10-08 10:00 pm

A Thought on Intellectual Property

Inspired by some kefluffle.

On the internet, a lot of thought (including me) is put into the availability and rights to creative work: intellectual property.

Considerably less emphasis is put on producing creative work which is actually work someone's time: your own or others.

This seems backwards to me.

[identity profile] the-tall-man.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 06:01 am (UTC)(link)
"Worth someone's time" strikes me as a less-than-perfect phrase. We waste time on a regular basis. "A meaningful use of time"? I dunno.

(I'm looking for the right way to frame this so that I can think on the actual, very real issue I think you're pointing at. If my casting about for a frame I like distracts, just ignore it.)

[identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 02:56 pm (UTC)(link)
You're distracting.

Actually, I think you're just coming from a totally different place and perspective than I am, to the degree that we have almost nothing to say to each other.

Your tradition, which we might call the brainstorming tradition, seems to be "people's ideas, naked, are inherently of value, and all the other stuff (the craft, basically), is little more than distractions or added value that someone else could easily tidy up."

My tradition, which is called the authorial tradition teaches that ideas are themselves valueless (everyone has a lot of good ideas all the time) and it is the preparation, selection, and craft of your ideas that gives them any value at all.

For the first, the core question is "how can I get access to as many ideas as possible, filed tidily?"

From the viewpoint of the second, this is obscene. The question is instead "how can I learn to prepare my ideas in the best way possible, to improve my craft as a creative person?"

I'm sure that there are equally strange things looking from the other direction.

yrs--
--Ben

[identity profile] the-tall-man.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
That smells true to me.
evilmagnus: (Default)

[personal profile] evilmagnus 2008-10-09 07:18 am (UTC)(link)
"Is of value to someone other than yourself", perhaps?

[identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 02:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Sure, that's a metric.

But the question isn't "how do we judge what is good or not?" There's any amount of critical metrics out there to use. It's "how do we improve our craft?"

yrs--
--Ben

[identity profile] tigerbunny-db.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 03:22 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think these questions are really pointing at any of the same things. Access to the raw material of creative work is the keystone of IP controversies (at least the part of it that's not merely about consumerism and entitlement); quality, craftsmanship, and professionalism is irrelevant.

I think your "authorial tradition" is only one - relatively modern and culture-bound - way of looking at creative work. Part of where the friction comes from is that the much older, much larger tradition of creative work is folk art - which definitely thrives on amateurism, mix-and-match, pastiche, outright theft, and a gift economy. All of these are anathema - as you say - to the authorial model. But the authorial model is foreign to the vast majority of human creative activity.

To the extent that's true, "authors" and "remixers" have little to say to one another.

The other thing is, the whole "long tail" concept is built around the idea that one man's trash is another man's treasure - that anything, no matter how obscure, crummy, poorly crafted, etc. probably has value to someone. Search costs become the limiting factor. Which is why healthy criticism and an RPG culture built around actual play is absolutely necessary if authors (rather than just tinkerers) are to survive.

[identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Producing creative work actually worth someone's time (anyone's time, even yours) is not related to intellectual property, nor is it a particularly modern idea.

You're trying to paint me into a corner: "Because you disagree with me, you must be the opposite of what I agree with."

Stop.

yrs--
--Ben

[identity profile] tigerbunny-db.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't think that was what I was doing... For one thing, I'm not really sure I *do* disagree with you. I agree with both propositions (as I see them: "access to other people's ideas is good for me making my own stuff" and "quality matters"). I don't think they're related. I don't think they're in opposition in any way. They're not talking about the same thing.

[identity profile] benlehman.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
They are totally orthogonal in all ways except time spent worrying about it.

yrs--
--Ben

[identity profile] misuba.livejournal.com 2008-10-09 07:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I am reminded of the last panel of this (http://xkcd.com/309/).

[identity profile] sirogit.livejournal.com 2008-10-10 01:56 am (UTC)(link)
Why does it seem backwards?

[identity profile] kleenestar.livejournal.com 2008-10-10 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
The latter doesn't happen on Internet Time, hence the Internetz are not particularly interested in it. That's my theory. Doesn't mean it's not happening.