De-geeking role-playing games

[benlehman]

This comes up, maybe, every month or so in the online conversations I follow. "role-playing games need to be less geeky!"

I just wanted to record here that I think that the entire idea is ridiculous for the following reasons:

1) Perceptions of role-playing games by our culture at large are generally positive: that they are fun, but very time-consuming and potentially obsession forming. Which is about accurate.

2) Since, oh, 1996, geeky things have been hella cool. Hello gamers? I know that you live under a rock, unexposed to the culture at large. But srsly.

I'm posting here because I don't want to have to write this same post, like, 80 times only to have it fall (again) on totally deaf ears.

Comments

[relevance.livejournal.com]

I think many roleplaying games are too geeky. By which I mean not that the barrier of entry is high, but that play mostly consists of haggling over minutiae and thumbing through innumerable tomes trying to find the right lookup table. You have to be incredibly geeky to enjoy that: it's not something that 99% of people would ever enjoy because their non-geeky priorities don't include determining the exact buoyancy of a mature blue dragon.

I guess there are people who enjoy these games and that's okay, as long as they realize that their hobby is about as attractive as linear algebra to the populace at large. I'm just glad that this type of game is becoming less representative of the hobby as a whole, because the older I get, the less I care about the buoyancy of a mature blue dragon. At this point I would go so far as to say that I care more about the exact dimensions of Hitler's moustache, and would be - by comparison - HIGHLY interested in a game that attempts to explore this through live-action re-enactment.

[matt-rah.livejournal.com]

LOL!

"No, it displaces 6.7 tonnes I tell you, six point SEVEN, not six point EIGHT, you dunce—that's juvenile Red Dragons!"

>>...their hobby is about as attractive as linear algebra to the populace at large<<

Hey! I resemble that remark. :-) Though obviously I quite agree with your overall point.

Matt

[benlehman.livejournal.com]

Hey, Adam.

There's a big difference between "socially acceptable" or even "cool" and "broadly popular throughout society." Right?

yrs--
--Ben

[relevance.livejournal.com]

Yes, certainly, though I dare posit that GURPS could reasonably be described by none of these terms.

[benlehman.livejournal.com]

I dunno. My experience has been that, in general, role-playing games are a totally socially acceptable hobby provided that:
1) The person whose hobby it is is also socially acceptable.
2) That person doesn't try to enlist anyone who looks vaguely interested in any way other than "oh, if you're interested, let me know and we'll give it a spin sometime."

I guess I'm saying this is largely about personal presentation, not about writing new games.

[relevance.livejournal.com]

Barack Obama could sell me on drowning kittens, because he's an immensely charismatic individual. I'd be like, "oh, great, drowning kittens, that sounds cool, let's drown kittens sometime," and then we'd never actually drown kittens together because on some level I find the actual prospect of kitten-drowning repugnant.

Also indirectly, I do think less of Mr. Obama because he drowns kittens, although this nagging doubt about his character is overpowered by the warm, delicious glow I feel whenever I'm in his presence.

Tacitly, after his initial (slightly awkward) disclosure about kitten-drowning, he and I have agreed never to speak of it again.

[russiandude.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I would feel a bit awkward talking about my roleplaying at my job with my coworkers. I might say "oh I do some of that DnD stuff once in a while" and not really linger there.

I would not say, "Yeah, tonight I'm going to rescue my kidnapped daughter from the shapeshifting magus hiding her in a magical regio. I'll probably use my pagan blood magic to locate her and then turn the guys mind into jello and kill him. To ensure no one discovers what I have done I shall completely destroy his body and then commit it to a christian burial so that his spirit can not be summoned by other vengeful magi."

All in all, I think most people's reaction to my mentioning tabletops and/or larping would range from "that's kind of unusual" to "you're one of those weirdos."

[matt-rah.livejournal.com]

Does it get easier if the fictional content changes to stuff more familiar / acceptable to non-geeks? Try this: "Oh, this past weekend I pretended to be a scientist working on the cure for cancer. He found it eventually, but not before his Mom died of brain cancer—it was really sad! Even worse, he and his entire research team received credit and attention for their work, but never saw a single cent from it, due to an evil pharmaceutical company, and lived out their lives in poverty." (Actual play from this past weekend!)

Still genre fiction, but way more accessible to the general public than your example, I think.

I think the notion of the content of the fiction is as important to this discussion as the systematic stuff Adam eluded to above. It doesn't matter* if you have a really accessible, easy-to-use system for... killing shapeshifting magi.

Matt

*Actually, it matters deeply, and I'm in favor of it, but not in terms of lowering the barriers to entry for people who aren't into genre fic.

[russiandude.livejournal.com]

Look at it this way - I have talked to my coworkers about video games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band and Super Mario. The sysadmin plays Medal of Honor and other FPS's. I am pretty sure I could mention that I play WoW and that would still be socially acceptable for most.

However, I think I would get a much better reception if I stated that I was an actor in a play where my role was a scientist who... then if I said I was playing pretend with my friends. The first is socially accepted, the second is weird. I could say that I go camping, or play paintball, or fence competively. But if I say that I swing swords around (padded or otherwise) in an attempt to imitate Tolkien - that's weird.

I think if the fictional content is more familiar, that can be helpful, but not all that much. If I said it was a boardgame of some sort, that would also make it more socially acceptable and familiar.

[funwithrage.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I don't talk about *any* of my hobbies that much at work. "Hey, I see this movie," or "Yeah, I play these video games," is about as far as it gets, unless I'm talking to siriel and O'Reilly's a pretty fucking geeky place. I'm not so much worried about being perceived as a geek as...I have my interests, my co-workers have theirs, we're friendly but we don't mingle so much.

Likewise with family. It's less a geek/nongeek thing and more a matter of "you don't share this interest, and thus probably don't want to hear about it in detail," which I wish more people would realize re: the goddamn Red Sox, but whatever.

[relevance.livejournal.com]

Whereas I generally do talk with my coworkers about what I've been up to, at least in general terms; just not about gaming. Movies I've seen - even fantasy movies - are great conversation fodder in these situations, so it's not a question of the subject matter. Harry Potter is socially acceptable and even maybe cool; GURPS? Not ever.

[funwithrage.livejournal.com]

You do have a point there. I mean, *I* consider GURPS geeky and arcane; wild horses couldn't drag me into a game of it, and if someone said it was their preferred game system, I might not want to game with them, because, well, I don't *like* gaming with obsessive detail freaks who like to prove their cock size through their math skills.

But, while I will talk about fantasy movies and so forth at work or with family, and I'll mention things like martial arts in general terms, I try not to bring up gaming at all. Any sort. I think it's because the average person isn't likely to be that familiar with gaming, except in terms of "D&D, yeah," and I don't care enough, or think they care enough, to try and explain it. It's not something where you can go "Yeah, I do martial arts," and leave it there.

And it's waaaay the hell easier to whip out the theatre/camping/board game dodge, if someone asks why I need this costume or am in New Hampshire than it is to go through the whole "it's like an interactive story blah blah" song and dance for the sake of someone, at the end, going "Huh."