(no subject)

[benlehman]

In other news: Point out and criticizing the stupid things that men do to try to get sex is sexist against women.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

I've been in many games where the girl who the GM wants to get in bed, or already has in bed, gets special attention, "cool plot," etc. It's stupid boy behavior (never seen a girl GM do it) and one of the downsides to having one person with %100 of the social and material power in a gaming group. It's stupid and it happens constantly.

How is pointing it out an attack against the women involved? The only situation I can think of is one where a girl likes this behavior, and is afraid that acknowledging her privilege will take it away.

Comments

[matt-snyder.livejournal.com]

"never seen a girl GM do it"

I have. Just a data point.

[relevance.livejournal.com]

I think this sentence sums up her viewpoint neatly:

It's sexist because it is a charge most often levelled at women (or girl) gamers, and is predicated on the idea that women (or girls) are unable to play at a level equal to men and thus must resort to 'cheating' to succeed.

• It's sexist to blame the girl if the GM gives her special treatment. I would agree with this - it's both unfair and sexist to blame the girl for what is most often a stupid boy behavior.
• The girl is blamed out of jealousy because the other gamers think she would not be able to achieve as much without the special treatment. Assuming the group has generally gamist motivations (and thus the word "achieve" makes any sense), the other gamers would have to be pretty lame to jump to the conclusion that the girl is intentionally romantically/sexually manipulating the GM in order to "achieve".

we disagree

[ross-winn.livejournal.com]

after gaming for thirty years, I think she has a point. here is my response.

Though I will admit to being turned by a pretty face now and again (much like I was recently turned by that high-level cleric with the shiny cross), it has happened a lot less of late, since I am now 40. So many of the gaming groups I have been in over the years have had love triangles, quadrangles, tetrangles, and such that the idea that you trade anything for sex is almost ludicrous. It isn't that you ask for things and get them, it is that they feel you are given things without asking. The two of you share a joke or a private moment even near gametime and you are both plotting against them. Sexually frustrated young boys (and older boys with no social skills) commonly express jealousy and competetive courting I would normally only expect from thirteen year-old girls. Not to toot my own horn, but I once ran a game where all of the players except one expressed a desire to sleep with me. three women and two men. I never once thought that any of them thought it would improve their character, they just thought I was attractive, or so they said. That group tore itself apart as players coupled or didn't. It wasn't the only time I have seen it, just the only time I was in the center. Most long-term LARP groups experience this. It is never about getting stuff, that is just the surface bitch. The thing that is easy to complain about. Underneath all of this is the jealousy that never stops.

[mikegentry.livejournal.com]

After reading the article, I think what she's steamed about is not when it happens or when it's talked about, but when blame for it is reflexively placed on the woman. I.e., if you perceive that there is favoritism going on, and your first reaction, without knowing anything else about the situation, is to give the girl grief about it because your immediate assumption is that she likes it and/or is deliberately encouraging it, then that's a problem. And I tend to agree with that -- you really should first be going to the GM, or at least addressing it to both of them simultaneously, and preferably in a way that doesn't immediately assume that either of them are being deliberate or complicit about it. Because they may not be.

I also think she's steamed because she feels the first (non-ideal) reaction described is a lot more common than the second. I can't speak to this, because I've not seen it happen (much). But it doesn't sound like a particularly far-fetched guess.

And finally, I think she was too invested in being ranty and confrontational to communicate any of this well. She pretty much invited misunderstanding upon herself.

[faerieloch.livejournal.com]

*waves* I think you're adding an interpretation that isn't in the original post. You're assuming that it's about men doing things to get sex. She's talking about a man who's already getting sex and another one is accusing *her* of sleeping with said man and using that influence to get ahead in the game. *Very* different premise. It's possible they get cooler scenes because they're in a relationship and therefore (presumably) know each other better, so know which buttons to push. I'm guessing there. One thing I do know is that whenever I'm in a game that Albert runs, I worry about being accused of this very thing. Why? The fact that we're together all the time, pre- and post-game, may be perceived by others as giving me an advantage because we will (of course) talk about the game and plot things out for my character ahead of time, or plot the downfall of other characters, etc.. Things we don't do. But it could be perceived that way. And *I'm* the one who will get accused, not him. The first reaction won't be to accuse the GM of favouratism, but to accuse me of using my relationship to twist him. No, it doesn't make sense, but that's the way it is. If players said "hey, GM, I think you're favouring player x" and the GM is in a relationship with x, that's a reasonable statement because it could also be said about players a, f, and k. But like I said, it's usually the woman who gets accused (and yes, this could be stupid jealous behaviour). It implies that it's the woman who's doing something wrong, rather than the GM who is the one displaying favouratism. Does any of this make things clearer?

[shaenon.livejournal.com]

Whether or not this particular behavior is sexist, I agree with the original post. In particular, I agree that, even if favoritism is going on, accusing the supposed favorite of exploiting her sexual charms is childish and isn't likely to improve the situation. As the girl says, there's always going to be a certain level of favoritism in an RPG: to spouses, to friends, to people the GM has a crush on. People with any level of social maturity expect this and deal with it. After all, it's just a game.

As posted in the blog itself...

[wickedthought.livejournal.com]

"Finally, do you really believe anyone would trade real life sexual favors for in-game advancement? Really?"

I play in the Camarilla Club. Happens every day.

[greyorm.livejournal.com]

I have, from the inside: female GM to male player. I was the male player. I was honestly a bit embarrassed about her making her affections so public (but not so much so that I turned down her offer later that evening *ahem*).

It did, however, ruin the game itself for me. Mainly, I suspect, because "I want to get in your pants through your character" is just not good game-material. Perhaps also because it couples what should be seperate realities, making the fiction not about the fiction, diluting its power into a base, irrelevant tool.

[kitsuchan.livejournal.com]

I think it does happen that people blame the girl, regardless of whether she is aware of and using the attention or just there and getting favored. I used to see this happen a lot with GMs who were after my neechan, and would give her all sorts of special attention because of it. This causes lots of problems for the girl, esecially when there are other girls in the group, because then people start getting jealous and catty. I don't know about boys, but in my experience adolescent and college girls tend to blame their female rivals before they'll blame the boy- not always, but often enough that it can make gaming groups awkward.

I also see this behavior pattern a lot with Dragon*Con staffing- guys give the girls they either are or want to be sleeping with better positions in tech, regardless of qualifications. This causes no end of problems; the qualified tech staffers who've been bumped are often more angry with their replacements than the people actually responsible, and those new girls who actually can run a sound board are treated as though they're incompetant anyway. And all the girls are extra catty to one another because they're jealous.

Aside from that, it's also frustrating to be told that you only have something (a chance to do something cool in a game, a position in tech, whatever) just because someone wants to sleep with you. It may reflect even more poorly on the GM, but it's also demeaning to the woman involved. Tne person who wrote the post seems to be angry partly because she was making an effort to address someone's concern and was told, "Your opinion doesn't matter because you're sleeping with the GM, so you can't be having any problems with the game." In most of the games I've played in, you get special attention for being creative and interesting, and if someone told me that I found that +3 sword not because I solved the difficult puzzle but because the GM had a crush on me, I'd be offended, too.

Also, the poster's GM is her husband. Saying that he's doing something stupid to try and get sex from her is an insult to the person she loves and to their relationship, and people tend to get angry about these things.